Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#123
Folks

I'm new to Caspar, and hoping someone may be able to give me some advice as regards hardware platform. I'm looking to use it as a clip player, and I have the following requirements:

It needs to be highly portable, so ideally a laptop.
It needs to generate synchronous HD-SDI fill and key, genlocked to B&B or tri-level reference.

As far as I can tell I need to use a Decklink 4K Extreme board. Does anyone have any experience using this over thunderbolt? (I was thinking of an HP ZBook - but I'm not too sure about an enclosure - I was thinking of Sonnet, but http://www.sonnettech.com/support/chart ... index.html indicates that there is no PC support for BM boards?). Also more than happy to look at Bluefish.

Any advice would be gratefully received!

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#124
I tried also with Thunderbolt. On PC it does not work very well. Instead I bought me a small Shuttle PC, see here: http://casparcg.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... one#p19716 that is not much bigger than a Thunderbolt box and works very well. I can connect a monitor, mouse and keyboard to it, if I want, or let it run alone and controll it from my laptop, what I normally do. It only needs a Cat-5 cable and it can be as far away from the laptop as makes sense.
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#126
fatherdougal wrote:Thanks. The general consensus is to avoid thunderbolt then I guess. That's a shame - I was hoping for a single box (ie single computer) solution. Does anyone else have experience with thunderbolt?
It is anyway a two box solution :)

What you can do is use a Apple laptop under Windows. That should work with Thunderbolt...
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#130
mcdikki wrote:No, with the 4k, you can use casparCG at the end of your workflow as explained. No need for an extra input.
There are 3 general workflows possible with casparCG and video inputs:

1. The normal way with separate key+fill (needs one decklink 4k and one other sdi input):
SDI Input --> casparCG --> SDI outup via Decklink 4k as 2xSDI (1x FILL, 1x KEY) --> Vision Mixer
=> The vision mixer will composite the input from casparCG onto a background itself with the key and fill signal from casparCG

2. CasparCG as Keyer (needs 2x SDI cards, one for input, one for output):
SDI Input (prg.out of a mixer or a cam) --> CasparCG --> SDI Output
=> CasparCG plays and overlays everthing and only provides a new prg-out. This will add ~7frames of delay for processing.

3. CasparCG with Decklink 4k as keyer (Only the 4k Card is needed):
SDI Input to 4k Input (prg out or cam...) --> CasparCG --> SDI output of 4k card (prg out)
=> CasparCG plays all the overlays, the compostiting is done by the hardware keyer of the decklink 4k card.
This add ~1frame of delay and only works with the decklink 4k and 3d extrem cards in hd and decklink studio in sd)

Cheers
mcdikki
Mcdiki, can you write down the commands that performs the THIRD way of workflow? I have 4k extreme and very interesting of this mode!!!

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#137
Ultravibe wrote: Mcdiki, can you write down the commands that performs the THIRD way of workflow? I have 4k extreme and very interesting of this mode!!!
I use SDI 4K in mode 3. Config file looks like this

Code: Select all

<channels>
  <channel>
    <video-mode>720p5000</video-mode>
    <consumers>
      <decklink>
        <device>1</device>
        <keyer>internal</keyer>
        <key-only>false</key-only>
      </decklink>
    </consumers>
  </channel>
</channels>

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#138
Imorrish, great! Thank you! And what about AMCP commands: is it correct to use such command

Code: Select all

PLAY 1-1 DECKLINK 1
after Caspar is loaded with your configuration?
I mean that first (and only one))) Decklink device (producer) plays through the first Decklink device (consumer)?
Will it works with 1 fr delay and will it works generally? How I believe this IS the duplex mode that featured with 4k extreme? Or am I wrong?

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#140
By the way, I start testing this mode and of course i need video source to be overplayed with CG. I connect blu-ray player via HDMI but in first seconds Backmagic control panel shows me that it has 1080i at input and media express (app for capture and playback included in 4k extreme kit) shows me start screen of BD-player, but 5-8 sec pass and there is no signal and no picture? I turned off and then on a bit a later, but it doesn't change situation... Why is it so?

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#141
There are two problems: First:
didikunz wrote:
Ultravibe wrote:And what about second question: it can be only sdi or something else?
According to other users, who tried it, it must be SDI, there is a problem with HDMI.
Second HDMI coming from BlueRay or DVD players have a copyprotection signal enabled. So you will not be able to play it as input. Use SDI insted
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#142
Didi, it's easy to say, but it's hard to do))))) I got no Sdi devices at home. The only place where I can find it is our headquarters, where we store our ob-van. But it's far and I don't want to spend a lot of time because of traffic ))) the only chance to test the system is when we've got a broadcast, but in this case I should bring my CG-station to ob van. Much comfortable to test it at home :)))) well thank you anyway:)
P.S. By the way, if I use HDMI signal from my video card (it will be a picture from desktop) will Decklink see it? I hope it hasn't this copyright signal?

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#143
Ultravibe wrote:Imorrish, great! Thank you! And what about AMCP commands: is it correct to use such command

Code: Select all

PLAY 1-1 DECKLINK 1
after Caspar is loaded with your configuration?
I mean that first (and only one))) Decklink device (producer) plays through the first Decklink device (consumer)?
Will it works with 1 fr delay and will it works generally? How I believe this IS the duplex mode that featured with 4k extreme? Or am I wrong?
No, you don't need to play the input in this mode. Actually, you can't because the device is in use for the output.
Only play the cg stuff you want to overlay.

And to your hdmi question: Your gpu output may work, but you will have to test. HDMI is a poor standard for broadcast.

Cheers
mcdikki
sublan.tv - Wir teilen Begeisterung

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#144
Mcdikki, I understand that HDMI is not so good, but I need it to test internal keying and overlaying the graphics. To test complete workflow and make sure that everything correct. And finally, I will stuck with SDI out from vision mixer. Get a clean feed, overlay it with my graphics and send it to big-big screen at venue. SDI or HDMI out - doesn't matter))

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#145
Guys!!! Another "great" idea)))))
In blackmagic control panel I can choose from a few sources, for example component and composite. But in breakout cable I got a BNCs that marked Y Pb Pr. In case of using component input - no problem. But if I choose composite input, which bnc I need to connect? My BD-player also has a composite out))))) will try to use it

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#146
Ok, here we go!
I connect DVI output of video card to HDMI in of Decklink with cable. Then I launch Media express and go to tab "log and capture". I seen my desktop (right one of two desktop screens). Then I launch windows media player and drag it to the second screen. All these actions are seen in media express and via HDMI out on lcd TV.
Problems begins when instead of media express I launch Caspar with internal keyer. It seems like no syncro. May be I should set up something in config?

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#147
That's right! I initialize Caspar in 1080i5000. There was no syncro because of videocard's settings (30 hz interlaced). I set 50 hz progressive (video card has only progressive when 50 hz) and Caspar doesn't show anything. Then I try 25 hz interlaced and sync is on. But, instead of black color I seen green etc. Generally, colors was wrong, but my graphics was above incoming signal and colors of graphics was correct.
So, generally, I can say that experience is successful. The next step will be: use SDI source to overlay with graphics to get correct colors...
P.S. Still don't understand how media express can show input signal with correct colors and Caspar can't?
Media express don't care about frequency settings of videocard and interlacing, how to tune up Caspar to work correctly with incoming HDMI?

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#148
Hello to all

i recommended my client to buy ad Decklink Duo for a simple playout that is developed according to vimlesh's playout. but the seller sold him a decklink studio 4k and is not going to return it. i always use duo because i play out clips through "out 2" and receive live feed through "in 1". i am not sure about 4k. can i do the same with 4k????
there is only 1 SDI on it that i can think can be used only for output. how can i use the hdmi on it??

casparcg brings 1 2 3 ....9 decklinks in configuration part(caseparcg_server.exe) in casparcg 2.0.7 beta

please help me
nothing is impossible

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#150
Hi all,

I am thinking to use two Decklink Studio cards for casparCG (i allready have one and will buy another one). I will use it only for graphic (football and basketball) live broadcast. So standard key and fill on each card, directly to vision mixer DSK. I read about some synchronicity problems between fill and key in this type of setup. Is there any way that this issue can be fixed?

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#151
There are new settings for this mode of operation, that corrects some of the issues (I was not able to test it myself, because if have only Extreme 4K cards).

Code: Select all

                <device>1</device>
                <key-device>2</key-device>
                <keyer>external_separate_device</keyer>
Device 1 is the fill and device 2 (key-device) the key...
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#153
I have a client that uses a similar configuration (a Decklink Quad) and even with this "external_separate_device" he has sync issues. Generally, the cards will start in sync, but whenever the system comes under some load, or there is heavier traffic on the PCIe bus, one of the cards will soft-drop a frame and go out of sync. If you have a slighlty larger budget maybe you could consider buying a Decklink 4K Pro card? It's actually built better and should have most of the functionality you need (unless you need separate audio).

Oh, and he also has additional issues with SD modes - the "external_separate_device" doesn't seem to always work for him and he sometimes has to use two separate decklink consumers with one having the key_only mode on.
Jan Starzak
CasparCG graphics designer, programmer and live CG operator - available for work
Lodz, Poland http://janstarzak.com/

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#154
Hi, i am a new user of casparcg. I have a little production bussiness in Colombia, and i realy exited whit the caspar capabilities. I have 2 atem, the production studio 4k and the 2ME 4k. I read about the best card to make fill and key is the decklink 4k extreme, but for now i just have the decklink duo. i donk how i have to configure the key output. I put key only in output 2, but i just see the key when in the rundowon i put the template in channel 2. The only way that i can make key and fill is duplicating the template in the rundown, one in channel 1 (fill) and one in channel 2 (key) and grouping the two items. Them i play the group, but the animation lose smothness. When i ungroup and play again the client stop working. How i can make a correct configuration of key and fill in decklink duo? thanks. PD Sorry for my poor inglish.

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#155
Hi laroca,

you need to setup your caspar.config right.
There is no need for two channels to output fill+key.

Under the channel node consumer section, add the decklink consumer and set the <keyer> tag to separate external device and set the keyerdevice and it should work.

Code: Select all

...
<device>1</device>
<keyer>external_separate_device</keyer>
<key-device>device + 1</key-device>
...
And by the way, the new recommendation for the best card to do key and fill is the new decklink quad 2.
It can handle up to 4 channels of key+fill in full hd (1080) for the price of a 4k extreme ;-)
So, the 4k extreme is only interesting if you need 4k or 3d.

Cheers
mcdikki
sublan.tv - Wir teilen Begeisterung

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#158
mcdikki wrote:Hi laroca,

you need to setup your caspar.config right.
There is no need for two channels to output fill+key.

Under the channel node consumer section, add the decklink consumer and set the <keyer> tag to separate external device and set the keyerdevice and it should work.

Code: Select all

...
<device>1</device>
<keyer>external_separate_device</keyer>
<key-device>device + 1</key-device>
...
And by the way, the new recommendation for the best card to do key and fill is the new decklink quad 2.
It can handle up to 4 channels of key+fill in full hd (1080) for the price of a 4k extreme ;-)
So, the 4k extreme is only interesting if you need 4k or 3d.

Cheers
mcdikki
Hello,

Your recommendation for a good card is the decklink quad 2.
Can you also recommend the decklink Duo 2?

Thanks.
Jan Hein

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#160
I would not recomentd the Quad 2 as lonf as it has a problem with colors in fill/key mode, as Peter Aelig reported in this tread http://casparcg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3738 We don't know, how long it takes to solve this problem, so I would stick with the 4K Extreme or 4K Pro.
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#166
jladnil wrote:Can anyone confirm if Decklink HD Extreme 3 (Not Decklink HD Extreme 3d) work with Casparcg with key+fill ??? I am planning to pick a used one
I cannot confirf this, as I did not test it. But I would guess that you would have big problems running it under 64 bit Windows as CasparCG demand it. Is there no chance to get a new card, or at least a more rescent one?
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#167
jladnil wrote:Can anyone confirm if Decklink HD Extreme 3 (Not Decklink HD Extreme 3d) work with Casparcg with key+fill ??? I am planning to pick a used one
I'm using it in production, key+fill, without any problems on Win 7 64-bit and drivers 9.5.3. Buy it, thy can be found occasionally for < EUR 100 on eBay.

There are several versions of this card, with 4 and 3 BNC connectors, and with or without HDMI. Mine is exactly like on the image below, 3 BNC and no HDMI:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/ ... Video.html

Re: Supported SDI and HDMI video cards

#171
pdl2k wrote:Hello! Has anyone tried these external cards to live stream and insert graphics?
These works for keying?
Intensity Shuttle for USB 3.0
UltraStudio Express
As both boxes only have one output channel it will not work for graphics with fill/key.
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

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