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Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p output?

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Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p output?

Postby chronofx » 03 Nov 2013, 05:41

Hi everyone!

Is there a guide on how to set up CasparCG to use 3G-1080p formats? I noticed Jonas made a post previously stating that you guys have done testing confirming that 3G-1080p is possible using CasparCG, but I haven't been able to find any instructions on how to set up the Caspar server to handle this case properly.

Yes, we've tested 1080p5000 output from CasparCG Server 2.0.x but since this requires using both SDI outputs on the DeckLink HD Extreme 3D card, this means that synchronized fill+key output is not supported for 1080p5000 and 1080p5994. You would need dual cards, one for fill, the other for key, and then you would get the potential timing problems of the channels not being permanently synchronized if a channel dropped a frame.


I have Caspar set up on a server with two separate 3G-capable Blackmagic cards (one HD 3D Extreme and one 4K extreme). I tried changing the video format in Caspar to 1080p50/59.94/60 in the configuration file and adding both cards as consumers, but I'm not getting any video signal on my ATEM at the corresponding formats.

Any idea why this is happening? 1080p2997 works fine with Caspar, so it seems to me like there must be some special configuration I need to do in order to get Caspar to output fill on one card and key on the other at these 3G-1080p formats. I've tried toggling the key-only option for both cards, but still no dice.

Thanks for your time / help!
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 03 Nov 2013, 11:32

I think, one 4K must be able to output 3G fill and key, but never tried it myself for lack of a 3G capable display.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby chronofx » 07 Nov 2013, 21:50

Any help? I've been trying to get a hold of Jonas since he said he's tested / confirmed how to make this work before, but no lucky yet!
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 07 Nov 2013, 22:03

chronofx wrote:Any help? I've been trying to get a hold of Jonas since he said he's tested / confirmed how to make this work before, but no lucky yet!


I think he is very busy these days at finishing the second season of Real Humans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4xLm11D7uY airing 1st of December in Sweden.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby mcdikki » 07 Nov 2013, 22:48

didikunz wrote:
chronofx wrote:Any help? I've been trying to get a hold of Jonas since he said he's tested / confirmed how to make this work before, but no lucky yet!


I think he is very busy these days at finishing the second season of Real Humans http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4xLm11D7uY airing 1st of December in Sweden.


Cool, I hope they'll translate it to german fast again. I loved the first season.

Sorry for OT.

cheers
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby Jonas Hummelstrand » 08 Nov 2013, 11:02

I only have theoretical knowledge about how to do this, but first part of testing is always to isolate if this is a global problem, or a targeted problem. Does 3G video output work from your DeckLink card from any other software, including the software that Blackmagic Design ships with the card?

I know we have tested 1080p50 output from DeckLink HD Extreme 3D cards and 2160p25 output from DeckLink 4K Extreme cards with CasparCG Server 2.0.x, and as I'm sure you know you will only get either fill or key output from a single card in 3G mode.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby coral » 10 Sep 2014, 16:05

Bumping this, is 1080p50 fill/key working with the Decklink 4K Extreme card?
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 10 Sep 2014, 16:22

coral wrote:Bumping this, is 1080p50 fill/key working with the Decklink 4K Extreme card?

Do you have a monitor to display 1080p50? Because I have none, so I can not try it.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby coral » 10 Sep 2014, 16:33

didikunz wrote:
coral wrote:Bumping this, is 1080p50 fill/key working with the Decklink 4K Extreme card?

Do you have a monitor to display 1080p50? Because I have none, so I can not try it.


I have one at work, but i am very sick so can't go there today.
I'll test tomorrow and report!
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby coral » 10 Sep 2014, 16:40

15:23:50 < saftas> coral_, get 3G-SDI but it´s fill/fill

Seems like a no go
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 10 Sep 2014, 16:54

coral wrote:
didikunz wrote:
coral wrote:Bumping this, is 1080p50 fill/key working with the Decklink 4K Extreme card?

Do you have a monitor to display 1080p50? Because I have none, so I can not try it.


I have one at work, but i am very sick so can't go there today.
I'll test tomorrow and report!


No hurry from my side :) Keep drinking tea!
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby screenshaper » 11 Sep 2014, 10:35

coral wrote:get 3G-SDI but it´s fill/fill
Seems like a no go

Have you set keying as "external" on channell settings?
If you set "default" or "internal" fill/fill is the correct behaviour.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby davedv » 06 Nov 2014, 05:01

I just tried this with a UltraStudio 4K unit and got the exact same result. When set to 1080p50 or 1080p60 I get the same fill signal on both SDI outputs (instead of separate key and fill outputs).

The interesting thing is that if I set the keying mode for the device in CasparCG to internal rather than external, it does work as you would expect. Takes a 1080p50 or 1080p60 signal on the SDI input, keys the graphic on top, and outputs the resulting 1080p60 signal (with the same video output simultaneously on both SDI outputs). This suggests that the hardware keyer built into the Ultrastudio 4K (and presumably the Decklink 4K as well) is capable of operating at 1080p50/1080p60.

So the mystery is, why isn't the output correct (with separate key and fill signals) in external keying mode. Is this a limitation of CasparCG, or the Decklink SDK, or of the Blackmagic hardware?

I'd love to get this working so if someone has any suggestions to try, let me know.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 06 Nov 2014, 08:16

AFAIK it is documented inthe Caspar wiki somewhere, that for 3G fill and key you need two Decklink Extreme cards, one for fill and one for key. This is a limitation of the card.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby davedv » 06 Nov 2014, 11:31

I didn't see anything about this in the wiki. In fact the one note I was able to find seems to suggest that this configuration is supported:

In the Notes section of SVT's Recommendations, it says:
"DeckLink 4K Extreme support 1080p50 (if you use one channel for fill and one for key) which the Quads don't."

Although this contradicts some of the earlier posts in this thread. It is true that the Decklink Quad cards don't support 3G SDI output (1080p50 or 1080p60).

The interesting thing about the Decklink 4K Extreme, is that at least according to the tech specs, it claims to support 6Gb/s single link and dual link input and output over SDI:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/produc ... s/W-DLK-04

So you'd think that it would able to handle outputting of two 3G SDI signals, (which would be the same data rate as a 6G SDI dual link signal).
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 06 Nov 2014, 12:26

davedv wrote:In the Notes section of SVT's Recommendations, it says:
"DeckLink 4K Extreme support 1080p50 (if you use one channel for fill and one for key) which the Quads don't."


This discussion is about English language, not about the Decklink card. If you mention right, it says to support 1080p50. But you must read also the sentence in parenthesis, where it says, that you need to use one card for fill and one for key. To me that makes two cards... :)
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby davedv » 06 Nov 2014, 12:50

Yeah, I thought the two channels was referring to the two SDI outputs on the Decklink 4K cards, but I suppose it could also mean two separate cards.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby didikunz » 06 Nov 2014, 12:52

Aha, no, the Decklink Extreme has only one channel. You cannot play two independant clips on the two outs.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby iTech » 23 Dec 2014, 04:33

Any update on what causes this?
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby coral » 02 Feb 2015, 19:26

I spoke to BMD about this and it's a driver issue. The card is hardware capable of it but they never got around to writing the driver stuff for it apparently. They promised a fix, but we all know BMD...
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby iTech » 06 Feb 2015, 03:08

coral wrote:I spoke to BMD about this and it's a driver issue. The card is hardware capable of it but they never got around to writing the driver stuff for it apparently. They promised a fix, but we all know BMD...


Can't wait to test it out in 2016.
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby xtonross » 15 May 2017, 18:20

I tested Decklink 4K Extreme into CasparCG with Desktop Video 10.9 today. External Key+fill is now supported for 1080p5994 and 1080p5000. :)
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby daveatech » 18 May 2017, 15:46

This is great news!

Just to confirm, this is key + fill on two cables/outputs at 3g-sdi on the 4k Extreme?
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Re: Decklink 4K/HD 3D Extreme: How do I enable 3G-1080p outp

Postby xtonross » 31 May 2017, 15:05

Yes. SDI out ch A and B.
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