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Fill+Key out through HDMI?

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Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby jackreynolds » 08 Dec 2016, 01:46

I was just wondering if it was possible to put out fill and key through a single HDMI line. If that is not possible, is it possible to output through two HDMIs?
Additionally, is it possible to sync two of the one-output cards together for fill and key? For instance, if we have a Decklink SDI 4K card and we wanted to add a Mini Monitor Decklink card to our existing build, is it possible to get the fill and key out?
Thanks
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Re: Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby mcdikki » 08 Dec 2016, 08:38

Hi jack,

1. No, it is not possible to output fill+key with only one hdmi cable.
HDMI nor SDI nor any other video cable has the ability to send the alpha channel of a video signal. The only one-wire solution would be ethernet with something like NDI.
With dedicated video cabling, you will always need 2 cables, one for the key signal and one for the fill.

2. Yes, you can output fill + key through 2 HDMI outputs. But since there is no decklink card supporting hardware keying whilst having the desired hdmi ports, you will have to use sdi to hdmi converters or separate cards for fill + key.

3. Yes, you can use separate cards for fill + key. But there is the possibility that the synchronization of the key and fill signal gets lost. So this way may work well or may not, but for a guarantied sync, you should go with a card that supports hardware keying like the 4k extreme, the duo 2 or quad 2 and use sdi to hdmi converters.

4. I would recommend you to use a duo2 or quad 2 and sdi cables if possible. SDI is much better and you can have longer cables (up to 100m/300ft) than with hdmi (15-20m/45-60ft). If your equipment at the end needs hdmi, use the sdi to hdmi convert as close as possible to the hdmi source or sink and do all longer cabling with sdi.

cheers
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Re: Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby thos-berlin » 08 Dec 2016, 12:11

I have the following Situation:

3. Yes, you can use separate cards for fill + key. But there is the possibility that the synchronization of the key and fill signal gets lost. So this way may work well or may not, ...


I use two "Decklink Mini Monitor" for key and fill ans I know what happens, when the signals become unsynchronous. It looks like a shadow at some edges between fill and background. The key-mask is at an other position as the fill. So there were small areas (depending on the speed of movement), where fill is cut away and areas with no fill - so black.

When the movement stops or you use still graphics, there is no visible negative effect.

In the next days, I'll try a "DeckLink 4K Pro", I bought some months ago. It is installed in a PC far away from my ATEM-mixer and so I wasn't able to test earlier.... Maybe the new and cheeper "DeckLink Duo 2" could also do synchronous key/fill (maybe someone can confirm the synchronous work of both cards)
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Re: Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby drakmor » 08 Dec 2016, 13:11

DeckLink Duo 2 works perfect. - https://youtu.be/TeboS8s_00w?t=11m30s
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Re: Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby thos-berlin » 08 Dec 2016, 13:19

Looks very good.
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Re: Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby jackreynolds » 08 Dec 2016, 18:49

Okay, thank you I thought that would be the case with the HDMI. Is there a way to manually set the sync on the fill and key if separate cards were used?
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Re: Fill+Key out through HDMI?

Postby drakmor » 08 Dec 2016, 18:54

jackreynolds wrote:Is there a way to manually set the sync on the fill and key if separate cards were used?

No, you will not be able to synchronize 2 hdmi, because latency will change over time. A title goes normally, the other is out of sync, the third again normally.
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