Key and Fill out of sync!

#1
Hello all.

I've noticed for a little while that the key and fill output of CasparCG drift a little from each other (ie when I play the template where the ghost runs around the screen the white outline (key) is always out of sync with the fill), this used to happen after the server software had been running for a few days so we could just restart it and all was well, but now it does it when it starts up too :S.

This is the current config file we use, but we did have it set such that the default keyer was external default something, but I forget exactly what that was, also we only had that set on fill or key, and the other was set to default still so I thought that didn't make much sense.
<channels>
<channel>
<video-mode>1080i5000</video-mode>
<consumers>
<decklink>
<device>1</device>
<key-device>2</key-device>
<embedded-audio>false</embedded-audio>
<latency>normal</latency>
<keyer>default</keyer>
<key-only>false</key-only>
<buffer-depth>5</buffer-depth>
<custom-allocator>true</custom-allocator>
</decklink>
<decklink>
<device>2</device>
<embedded-audio>false</embedded-audio>
<latency>normal</latency>
<keyer>default</keyer>
<key-only>true</key-only>
<buffer-depth>5</buffer-depth>
<custom-allocator>true</custom-allocator>
</decklink>
</consumers>
</channel>
</channels>

A little background: we have no reference gen/triburst sync devices sadly, and the key and fill are being taken in by a Blackmagic ATEM.

If anyone would like to advise me on any better settings in general for the above config too I'd love to get your advice, ie is a buffer depth of 5 good, I believe I saw something similar in the wiki.

PS
I'll just mention that I believe the card is a Blackmagic Decklink duo, it's the one with 2ins and 2outs with one ref in, but you can only use 2in or 2out, or one of each at any time.

Thanks, James.
Technical helper at KTV

Re: Key and Fill out of sync!

#2
the decklink duo or quad needs no extra key line in the config. all channels can be inputs or outputs.
you have to set in the Windows System Control- BM Utility channel 1 to Output 1+2, etc. the two remaining channels in the windows system control will have NONE
then, in Caspar, the first BNC, after the reference, automatically is key1, the third is fill1.
Another fault could be different length of cables for fill and key. Both, fill and key must have the same length. if you put a distributor only in one channel (for ex. fill) will affect the timing also.

Code: Select all

<channels>
    <channel>
      <video-mode>1080i5000</video-mode>
      <consumers>
        <decklink>
          <device>1</device>
          <embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
        </decklink>
      </consumers>
    </channel>
    <channel>
      <video-mode>1080i5000</video-mode>
      <consumers>
        <decklink>
          <device>2</device>
          <embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
        </decklink>
      </consumers>
    </channel>
     </channels>

Re: Key and Fill out of sync!

#3
I would set keymode to external:

Code: Select all

<channels>
	<channel>
		<video-mode>1080i5000</video-mode>
		<consumers>
			<decklink>
				<device>1</device>
				<embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
				<channel-layout>stereo</channel-layout>
				<latency>normal</latency>
				<keyer>external</keyer>
				<key-only>false</key-only>
				<buffer-depth>3</buffer-depth>
				<custom-allocator>true</custom-allocator>
			</decklink>
		</consumers>
	</channel>
	<channel>
		<video-mode>1080i5000</video-mode>
		<consumers>
			<decklink>
				<device>2</device>
				<embedded-audio>true</embedded-audio>
				<channel-layout>stereo</channel-layout>
				<latency>normal</latency>
				<keyer>external</keyer>
				<key-only>false</key-only>
				<buffer-depth>3</buffer-depth>
				<custom-allocator>true</custom-allocator>
			</decklink>
		</consumers>
	</channel>
</channels>
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Key and Fill out of sync!

#4
Thanks all.

Unfortunately I'm a little confused by both of your configs there, they seem to have one consumer per channel, whereas I want two consumers for one channel to get the fill and key from that one graphics channel, also I tried putting them both to external, and both to defualt and they have the same issue, can someone confirm that 'external' means use the decklink ref in? If so as I say unfortunately that input isn't populated as we don't have a reference generator.

Cable length isn't the issue - the distance is approx 1-2m.

Oddly it seems to drift, so sometimes it's perfect, and sometimes this is helped by starting and stopping.

Thanks all, James.
Technical helper at KTV

Re: Key and Fill out of sync!

#5
No, no, External means „External Key“ that‘s the real name of that fill & key stuff. The reference in is used to sync the outputs regardless what mode you set it to. And what you really want is one Decklink consumer that runs in external key mode and produces two SDI signals, one for fill and one for key. The Duo2 and the Quad2 need a configuration in the Control Panel applet to make two SDI outs work in that mode, before the External setting works.
Didi Kunz
CasparCG Client-Programmer, Template Maker & Live CG-Operator
Media Support, CH-5722 Gränichen, Switzerland http://mediasupport.ch/
Problems? Guide to posting Bug reports & Feature requests

Re: Key and Fill out of sync!

#6
Didikunz: Ok, that sounds like the setup I have then (I have the one decklink card with two in and two out, and only use this computer for a graphics overlay), but in your last post the config had two channels with one consumer each, and I couldn't see where in the config it said one was a key and the other was a fill?

Thanks for your help! James.
Technical helper at KTV

Re: Key and Fill out of sync!

#7
see topic viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3738
the duo cards are bidirectional. if you have a duo2 or a quad2, the card can have
2x fill and key
or
2 x in/2x0ut
or
4 x in
or
4 x out .......... etc.
for a quad2 you have 8channels, 4x fill and key etc.

to set the card to fill and key you have to set this in BM utility in system control, as described in the first answer.
SEE PICTURE ATTACHED
if you want to have 2 x fill and key, use didis or my config AND SET THE CARD CORRECT

Blackmagic Deskop Video Setup in Windows System Control
Decklinkk Duo(1) Connectors - Connector Mapping SDI1 + SDI2
Decklinkk Duo(2) Connectors - Connector Mapping SDI3 + SDI4
Decklinkk Duo(3) Connectors - Connector Mapping will show NONE
Decklinkk Duo(4) Connectors - Connector Mapping will show NONE
Attachments
Quad 2 Connection Drawing.png